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| Amdec; AMDEC and SB19 | |
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| Topic Started: Mar 24 2008, 02:53 PM (3,655 Views) | |
| nancybv | Mar 24 2008, 02:53 PM Post #1 |
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I'd like to discuss the current issue with AMDEC (Avon Maitland Distance Ed). For those who wish to gain Ontario High School Credits, AMDEC has been a good resource, but it used to be that you could register directly with them. Now you have to go through the local school. Apparently since SB19 was introduced last August, a number of schools/boards refused to register students and there were all kinds of problems - for one school year, then, any student wishing to register with AMDEC but faced with recalcitrant personnel at the local level could register directly with AMDEC. Apparently, this is no longer going to be available for the 2008-2009 school year. It is not clear what will happen to those people who are dealing with uncooperative local schools. Comments? Do you know anything about this? |
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| SarahRainsberger | Mar 24 2008, 05:51 PM Post #2 |
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Hi Nancy, I don't know anything more than the discussion we all had at the beginning of the school year. But, you've given me something to look into! Anyone else already being proactive about next year's registration? |
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| nancybv | Mar 24 2008, 07:40 PM Post #3 |
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There are some people looking into it, but nobody is getting very far. In my own case, the junior high was perfectly fine, but I have had further dealings with the high school and been told "we do not authorize ANY distance ed courses unless there is a medical reason, and we do not EVER agree to a transfer of funds." Now, if you check AMDEC's website, their new enrollment forms state very clearly and simply that the student will enroll with the local school and that this enrollment form authorizes Avon Maitland to bill the school board for the per pupil grant. Currently I have demitted my 3rd son from the high school, so that he can take an ILC course as a homeschooler, because they absolutely refused to authorize it under any other circumstances. (He was too late for AMDEC registration, which closes in February.) They said that they had never heard of AMDEC, though, and I assume that they will refuse to readmit him for the purpose of holding his OSR so that he can take AMDEC courses in the fall. I don't know what will happen with my daughter, who is in the process of obtaining 8 grade 9 credits and who would like to continue in the fall with grade 10 credits. Let me know what you find out. The AMDEC parent community had a flurry of activity, but there seems to be some dissent - I feel strongly that it IS about school choice, but others feel that it's a matter of being able to take courses not available locally. (I am sure that the answer to that is "but they ARE available locally - just go to your local B&M!") |
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| SarahRainsberger | Mar 24 2008, 09:41 PM Post #4 |
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What has AMDEC's response been to all this? Are they of the "our hands are tied" mentality, or do you get the sense that they're scrambling behind the scenes to maintain their student base? Do you get the sense they're exploring every avenue? Are they offering to join forces with the parents to find a loophole or create a viable situation? Is there some kind of cooperative effort in effect? It would just seem strange if all the effort is on the part of the parents, and the school itself isn't lobbying for its "survival." (I'm assuming that this change in legislation can't be healthy for their numbers.) Have any of the alternative public schools or programs come forward to offer a registration shelter for students? |
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| SarahRainsberger | Mar 25 2008, 03:13 PM Post #5 |
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Nancy, have you seen Carlo Ricci's article found here? http://www.nipissingu.ca/education/carlor/publishedpapers/E-learning-in-Ontario.pdf This pretty much sums up what I've been reading. The memo sent to schools (I'm sure the AMDEC parents have seen this) can be found here (http://tpfr.edu.gov.on.ca/SB_Memos_2007.htm) and SB19, as you mentioned, is the one in question. What I have seen around the net seems to imply that not only must students go to the LOCAL board they're entitled to (so, any one they would reasonably be expected to attend or can get permission to attend as if they were attending in person) but that even worse, schools may reject permission to take courses outside the school and/or board if courses are otherwise available to the student locally. Initially, I thought perhaps a "public awareness" campaign of sorts might be in order if schools were unfamiliar with some mandate to provide access to e-learning opportunities. (Aren't they touting choice with their "Pathways?" However, it seems as if no such mandate, and in fact, an opposite one, might exist. It does seem to be a strengthening of the borders at play, which to ME signifies that access without a consenting school board is going to become next to impossible, and I don't see that front changing. Off the top of my head, it seems the following would be useful strategies for parents: -compiling a list of "friendly" schools around the province so people know which schools to approach for local registration (is anyone doing this?) -exploring options to these publicly-funded courses, including the ILC (although meant to be self-taught) and private credit providers (although, at a much higher cost) -non-credit alternatives and forgoing the credit system altogether (although this requires more work/commitment than following a push-delivery course) Is there any kind of united action going on to deal with this? Edited by SarahRainsberger, Mar 25 2008, 03:27 PM.
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| nancybv | Mar 25 2008, 05:13 PM Post #6 |
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I haven't spoken to Eleanor lately. I will do so, but I'm not very hopeful. The high school has been highly inflexible, only doing what we wanted when what we wanted was to *leave*. We got the ILC course today - we'll see how that works, but I'd rather stay with AMDEC if I can. I have a friend who has been homeschooling for two years, and her son is going to be starting grade 9 courses in the fall. He's also looking at applying to AMDEC, but he's going through a different junior high, so we'll see. From the looks of that link, ILC will be the same shortly - now they allow registration as a homeschooler, in addition to registration as "dayschool", but they may not do so in the near future. On (my personal) other hand, if he wants to apply to university as a homeschooler, he would probably be better off not taking credits with anybody, at least for the next two years, and just combine classical homeschooling with Athabasca work. |
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| SarahRainsberger | Mar 28 2008, 09:45 AM Post #7 |
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Just out of my own curiosity, Nancy and others, what is the appeal of AMDEC over ILC? (I have my own suspicions, of course, since I'm familiar with both. I'm just interested in what people have to say.) |
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| nancybv | May 25 2008, 09:16 PM Post #8 |
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Sorry - haven't checked this board for a while. Well, I've now had experience with ILC and AMDEC (my 16 yr old is currently doing two ILC courses, grade XI chemistry and grade X English). In a nutshell: I HATE ILC. Really, they are many kinds of inferior. If you are taking the courses with any expectation at all of actually learning something, stay the heck away from ILC. 1. All courses have 20 modules, both ILC and AMDEC. I'm not sure if this is coincidence or a ministry requirement. AMDEC requires that you send in each module as it is completed, and you get feedback on it. ILC groups the modules into four or five module "books", and you send in a book and have it marked. You get significantly less feedback. 2. ILC has this idiotic "journalling" rule. For each module in each course, you have to write about how you feel, how it relates to your goals, etc etc.....and then the instructor/teacher writes back to you commenting on your journal entry, and then YOU have to write back commenting on your teacher's comments. It's absolutely daft. AMDEC has no such rule. Your thoughts are your own, unless there is a specific requirement for them (ie an English question such as "how do you think that Keno felt about the pearl? Can you think of a time that you have felt like this?") 3. ILC uses the post. You can mail your book in, you can send it in via computer, or you can bring it in in person (they are located at Yonge and Eglinton), but they will MAIL you back your booklet. It takes for-bloody-ever. You have at least a week lag time with every booklet. AMDEC is all done online. Submit online, maximum of two modules per week, and get feedback as quickly as the teacher can mark it, often the next day in "slower" parts of the year. 4. ILC's course instructions are no great shakes. I was attempting to help R with his chemistry, and not only was the information not well covered in the text, what there was was covered in the chapter FOLLOWING the one in which the question was asked. AMDEC uses standard textbooks and has chats and office hours scheduled twice per week. While the textbooks are not all brilliant, I have never encountered this kind of difficulty with the material, and I've now seen 10 AMDEC courses. (Admittedly, ILC does have some kind of online teacher chat system, but my son has never tried to use it, so I don't know how good it may be.) 5. The examples given are of a significantly lower degree of complexity than the ones that the students are asked to submit. This is not cricket. If you want a kid to teach him or herself (the way ILC is designed), you don't give an extremely simple example and then demand something with many more extraneous factors for the part the student is asked to work on by himself. AMDEC's examples are on par with the level of questions asked. 6. All work must be HANDWRITTEN. My son was advised that his handwriting was terrible, and that the English teacher was "almost not going to accept it" because it was so difficult to read. First, this is absurd. In all high schools that I know, all university courses, and certainly AMDEC, essay work is generally submitted as a doc file. (AMDEC asks that math work be faxed, which is fair enough, and art journals are also photographed and faxed, but all other subjects that I have encountered are sent as docs.) Students are not judged on their handwriting. (This is one of the problems with university exams. Students unused to handwriting often cramp in the course of long exams!) Secondly, my son's handwriting is difficult to read, I admit - not only is he unpractised, he's a lefty, and things tend to get smeary. He wouldn't win any copperplate awards. However, it was legible - certainly AS legible as that of the teacher who was complaining. AMDEC offers a "community". Of course, it's not for everyone, but they do have a student newspaper, clubs, overseas trips, field trips during the year, and an end-of-year picnic for which they provide free tickets to a Stratford show (this year it's Taming of the Shrew) for the student and a guest. I'm the first to admit that AMDEC isn't perfect, but it's a heck of a lot better than ILC. And I'll be FURIOUS if the high school that is my "local" messes me around later this year when I intend to enroll my grade 10 daughter in her 08-09 courses. |
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| nancybv | Jun 16 2008, 07:36 PM Post #9 |
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Sorry to reply to myself, but in fact, there was an error. Modules do not have to be completely handwritten. My son submitted the next two English modules mostly done on the computer, although the "journalling" stuff has to be handwritten into their book. (Comments - NOT LONG ENOUGH. I suggested that he write an intense multi-page analysis of why he hates writing journal entries, but so far I don't think he's bothered.) We went to the AMDEC end-of-year picnic, met the staff and some of the other kids, and had a terrific time. And were given two free tickets to the Stratford Festival show that evening, too. Next year there is a school trip to Costa Rica. |
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| urbship | Jul 9 2008, 09:32 PM Post #10 |
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Nancy--DD turned in all of her French typewritten. She typed up her journal comments, cut away the border and pasted them into the journal. All key questions were typed--double-spaced and single-sided. There were no complaints from the teacher. Final exam did have to be hand-written--I hope the teacher was able to read it. I agree, however, with your assessment. I have had some issues with the quality of the AMDEC courses, but I think they have been much better than the ILC course DD took. The lack of timely feedback--or even answers to questions--is a real problem. Fortunately, I know a homeschool mom who was able to help us out when we were both confused about French grammar. We did talk to the teacher by phone, but asking a question and getting a response took several days. |
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